Why not Diesel/Electric?

Question

I got to thinking about the technology that was used in the 1960s on the 'Oberon Class' DE Submarines.

Dual fuelling isn't a new technology , surely they can re-invent a scaled down engineering model with smaller components to use in modern vehicles.

Answer 1

Yeah, that would be a series diesel-electric hybrid.

Kind of like the series gas-electric hybrid Chevy Volt.

Answer 2

DE is a valid system for hybrid cars, but seems they are going down the petrol/electric route, possibly because it is cheaper or lighter.

Answer 3

Gm makes the very Locomotive engines that use similar technology as well...in the US things like this are such great mysteries it seems, that's ok, we'll see an import version long before we see anything from the US makers.

Answer 4

Main reason I see here in the USA is cost.   Hybrid systems already add $2-3K to the base cost of the car...which is similar to the cost-added Diesel options on trucks.  Since 95% of the small car models sold in the US don't have a diesel option (and 80% if you consider euro spec models), the development/retrofit will cost big bucks as well.

Its not unreasonable to see diesel hybrid cost $6-8K more than a base model in the current US Market, just by looking at current option prices.  It may be a different story 10-15 years down the road, as I see the diesel motor gaining a stronger foothold in the small car market as the new BS Cafe standards set in. (yeah, thats BS as in BULLSH*T)

Start/stop issues with the diesel....hmmm, didn't think of that, but that is a VERY good point!

Answer 5

They are coming, and they will quickly make every gas hybrid a lemon. Europe and other countries already have many small diesel  cars (Made by Ford, Toyota, VW, Puegot, et. al), that get better mileage than our best hybrid. Imagine what can be done with a diesel Hybrid!

Answer 6

one of the biggest car markets in the US is California.

and the state does not like diesel cars.

because of this the car makers are not real quick about building diesel hybrids.

the other thing in US. is that many of the car makers will not make lightweight diesel high mpg cars like Europe because they will not pass crash tests. ie the vw 200mpg prototype

6 months ago i tried to get a little 4.6 hp diesel to put in a old tote goat so that i could run it on 100% bio diesel

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/s...

http://jleibovitch.tripod.com/id144.htm

only to find out that i could not import one to California

so now i still run it on gas with a old B&S

it is purty bad when they will not let you clean up a tote goat.

Answer 7

There is no reason why Toyota could not use a Diesel engine in their hybrid Prius.

It`s the same technology.

Answer 8

Used long before the Oberons.  In the 1920s with US and German fleets.  Be that as it may, where are you going to mount the snorkel?

Answer 9

Google "viking 23"

This is a bio-diesel electric hybrid car designed as an experimental platform by my university.  It's a very nice little car, and drives quite well.  This isn't new technology, it's just a matter of getting people to make it in mass production.  But that hasn't happened yet.  So yes, it can be done and indeed has been done.  You might enjoy looking at some of the other viking cars developed over the years... some major advancements in the alternative fuels sector have been accomplished under the viking name.  Yet, we seem to go unnoticed.

Answer 10

Because it is an inherently polluting engine, like all internal combustion engines.  Auto makers are fixated on IC engines and are not willing to consider anything else.  

Steam engines are cleaner, more efficient and are able to use any liquid or gaseous fuel in an automobile configuration.  By combining a steam engine driving a generator with a 50 mile range plug-in electric vehicle you get the ideal combination. The cost is kept down because you don't need as many batteries. Since 80% of driving is done within 25 miles of home that driving would be on battery power using cheap electricity.  For the other 20% the steam engine would run the generator to keep the batteries charged.  

An electric motor at each wheel would provide propulsion. There would be no gears, differential or CV joints, also reducing cost and complexity.  The steam engine gets better mpg when making electricity to run the car than an IC engine because it runs at its most efficient speed.  Also if you take the total miles traveled, since the steam engine uses no fuel for about 80% of the distance traveled, the average mpg would be great.

Answer 11

The way current hybrids like the Prius works is that the infernal combustion part keeps starting and stopping.

This is much harder to do with a diesel.

However if you use electric traction motor alone, and have a small diesel generator constantly running at optimum load to keep the batteries "topped up" the problem is solved.

And if you put the generator in a trailer, then for journies less than 200miles before stopping for a 10 minute recharge break, then you can leave the weight generator behind, see the tzero "long ranger" http://www.acpropulsion.com/tzero/

Crash testing is the just as strict in the EU, and size is not the key issue but design, eg the Nissan Navara has just failed NCAP with such a poor rating it should be recalled, but the Tango passes Formula 1 crash testing, http://commutercars.com/ and by  handling better more likely to avoid an accident too.

Answer 12

The biggest problem with diesels in north america is the fuel itself is nowhere as refined as it is in europe, hence their lower emissions and better milage. Get the flipping politicians out of the oil companies pockets and away you go.Also with todays higher compression and superhigh injection pressures starting and stopping is a non issue. Diesel/Electric gets 2 thumbs up.

Answer 13

Some countries don't have a set of rules and regulations on how to register such cars engine. So simple the problem for some countries.

Answer 14

in a car its cost and weight.....

Answer 15

The problem with diesel/electric is in the system. These systems where originally designed for larger machines such as a submarine, train, etc... It is effective for these uses, it is not effective for automobiles.

A train and sub for example utilizes this technology because they can maintain a more consistent speed on there diesel motor. Having a more consistent running engine extends the life of the engine. This technology also gives the driver more control of direction with out putting additional stress onto the motor. With out the design of Diesel/Electric for these larger vehicles a complex and expensive transmission would be needed, so the diesel/electric design eliminates this hurdle.

With automobiles using diesel/electric or gas/electric they don't maintain a constant engine speed it is an on/off system. The on/off system is going to place additional strain on the engine especially for diesel motors.

The new technology coming out using this two part design is flawed and misleading. The gas/electric version is designed to be a disposable car not a longterm vehicle with resale value. The life span of the battery pack is very short and replacement is expensive. Most battery packs cost more than a motor replacement.

A straight diesel motor can achieve over a million miles if maintained properly. They can naturally achieve over a 30% efficiency rate compared to Otto cycle motors in Miles Per Gallon and not compromise on power.

Diesel technology is already advancing with vehicles that are mass produced than can achieve over 75mpg - Smart Car ForTwo. VW came out with a prototype car that could travel over 200 miles on a gallon of diesel and we will see a 100 mpg diesel production car in the next few years.

Summary:

-Diesel/Electric would shorten the life of the vehicle

-Maintenance cost would increase due to complex software and expensive electric parts

-Resale values would be low

-Not worth the little money saved on fuel compared to replacement cost

Answer 16

Agreed. Due fuelling is just an option to help to save gas.But there are new ideas and technology out there...people just don't want to invest on it because they don't believe it.