Why such dislike for Rocky Marciano on this forum?

Question

Lately I have been reading questions and answers from people that denigrate the memory of a legend who died nearly 40 years ago. Anyone who disagrees with the negative opinion of him gets torn apart or called a racist.

Rocky was and still is great for boxing. He was an American icon who fought and beat anyone put in front of him.

Nomatter how old an opponent is when u step into a ring ANYTHING can happen. A 45 year old George Foreman kayoed a 26 year old Michael Moorer.

Cassius Clay was a rising star when he kayoed Archie Moore years after Rocky did, but Rocky gets critiqued for fighting an old man?

Simple question, im just trying to get the pulse of this forum and find out why so many people dislike him or consider him overrated? Give me an opinion or your answer to my question. Thank you.

Answer 1

rocky wos grate but you always get them who say he would beat him or so and so would beat him but he beat them all who stood in his way. archie moor is a boxers boxer figher who id rate 10 of all time no he wos not the best nor wos duran look at his kO rate? so this old man drooped  rocky who has never lost  then the champ  got himself  together stop   the so called old man. moor was graet  but rocky was class  smart to new when hang up his gloves. just cos cassius clay said he was the grattest no one has to belleve it. god even i lied

Answer 2

like him or hate him rocky marciano did what no fighter did before or since he went 49-0-0-42 kos thats a perfect record and a great ko percentage some of the guys he fought may have not been in their primes but they could still fight marciano was a great fighter and would have been a top contender if he had been around in louis or alis prime he should not be underestimated

Answer 3

I think the primary thing at work here is that most of us are too young to have seen Rocky fight.  We may have seen old films of parts of some of his bouts, but film and tape, particularly old ones, just show some of the action of a fight.  They don’t capture the essence of the “fighter.”  The best way to watch a fight is to see it in person; next is to watch it live on television (with all the hoopla).  After that we get televised reruns, tapes and films, and news reports and stories.  Once a fight is in the books and we know the outcome, there is no way to recreate the anticipation and drama surrounding a fight when we watch a rerun.  In the case of Rocky, we missed the anticipation and drama of his fights.  We only know him from what we have read about him, and greatness doesn’t come from the pages of magazines and newspapers.

Rocky was a small heavyweight, he had short arms, and he was more of a brawler (with a punch) than a boxer.  I’m sure he was well aware of these “shortcomings.”  But he had 49 fights, won them all, and had 43 knockouts.  Why didn’t more of his opponents at least take him the distance?  Rocky obviously had some skills that he isn’t given credit for, specifically the skill to get in close on his opponents and use the one skill no one denies he had – power.  Lots of fighters have had power, but how many of them were able to use it as effectively as Rocky did?  d**n few.  Of the four fighters Rocky fought twice, how was he able to knock out three of them in the rematches?  Didn’t they learn anything from their first fights?  Or did Rocky have an almost unique ability to penetrate even the best defenses?  The record seems to speak for itself:  It was the latter.

Answer 4

I am not going to write a book here but I believe Rock M was probably the greatest fighter ever. He could never have defeated Ali or Lennox Lewis or Larry Holmes but he fought and beat everyone who dared to step into the ring with him, as did Roberto Duran.

Those 2 men at equal weights and equal conditions would have given us a fight for the ages.

Marciano could never defeat Ali, Holmes or Lewis for the same reasons the '76 Steelers (one of the best football teams ever assembled) could not defeat the 2007 Miami Dolphins (one of the worst teams ever assembled). Those ball players of the mid-70s were simply smaller  and slower than their opponents of today would be.

The Mongols who were the most effective fighting force of all history would not last a day against even the tiny, weak British military of today.

That being said, Marciano deserves the credit he earned in his day.

Answer 5

I was actually asking myself the same question. I recently saw a question that asked who was the most overrated champion of all time and like 3  or 4 answerers included Rocky on their list.

I don't really have an answer to your question.

Answer 6

1. The internet is mostly used by kids that think history began about 15-20 years ago. The only name they know from before that is Ali because of his fame, movies, etc.

2. Some of these quasi-boxing fans actually think these modern day steroid-heads who pump weights and fluctuate 50 pounds between their once or twice a year fights actually train better than the guys from the 40's and 50's who always stayed in shape and fought all the time.

3. Racism - pure and simple. There are a lot of black racists like Eriktravel and Big E that hate Marciano because he beat many of the great black champions. For the longest time they left Dempsey alone because he didn't beat their heroes. Now even Dempsey is coming under attack because he supposedly 'ducked' their heroes. It's almost funny how stupid and predictable these guys are!

Answer 7

generally people are just ignorant and like to follow the trend, which is bashing rocky apparently. the only thing wrong with rocky's career is that there was nobody truly great around to challenge him, it was a weak time for the heavywieght division, even worse than today, although that certainly isn't rocky's fault, no matter how weak your division, it still isn't easy to walk away with a perfect record

Answer 8

ha ha ha, i know this question is for me aceman lol, I could give you many reasons but elmer fuddstein's answer is more than enough, there is simply nothing i could add to it.  I think a lot of people are just tired of reading things like "Marciano would beat holmes" or "marciano would knock foreman out" or "marciano would beat Ali".....first of all Marciano was not even a true heavyweight he was barely a cruiserweight, he was slow, prone to cuts and easy to hit and in his day he never faced any competition that was close to foreman,lewis or holmes in their primes... people on this forum often let their bias cloud their judgement, marciano had only seven title defenses, his best opponents were moore,walcott,louis and charles all of them were past their physical primes and had fought more than 200 fights between them, the top prime opponents he faced in his day were la starza and "kid" matthews yet there are some people on this forum who insist that Marciano was the greatest and in the same breath criticize other boxers for not having quality opposition moreover Marciano was not the hardest hitter like many people like to assume he wasn’t a one-punch knockout artist or even the hardest puncher in the division, for that matter. If you want to look at harder punchers,Dempsey, Joe Louis, and Jim jeffries, were much harder punchers in their primes than Marciano ever was. Contrary to what people think, Marciano’s knockouts were the result of his tremendous stamina, for he could punch nonstop without resting, resulting in Marciano clubbing his opponents into submission rather than stopping them with a tremendous shot. Throw in the fact that the vast majority of his opponents were of marginal ability, along with the old age and ring wear of the ones that were good, and you get a beautiful record of 49-0. It looks good on paper, but it hardly means that he was the best. Like elmer said, unforuntaely racial bias still affects the way some people view boxing.

JO S I find it funny that you call me racist I don't even like ezzard charles or walcott,heck i am not even a joe louis fan so i doubt that i have anything against marciano based on race, moreover you are the last person who should call me racist considering all the racist messages you have sent me and some of the racist things you have written on this site so please desist from making stupid accusations without proof.

Answer 9

the ones who truly dislike marciano are the ones who do not know anything about the fighter, the same can be said for fans of ali, louis, and dempsey. each fighter has to be measured by the era in which he came up in, remember, the rules of the sport have changed since corbett ko21 sullivan in 1892.

Answer 10

ACEMAN. IMO, I'm not one of those criticizing ROCKY, but I would think that many can't accept the thought of a short, white guy at 184 lbs. being considered one of the best, if not the best in some minds. It's tough to envision ROCKY beating many heavyweight champions after his reign.

Answer 11

Simple answer: he was overrated.

I think 'dislike' is too harsh a word. A more appropriate word would be 'context.' Marciano was definitely great for the sport, but he was a limited club fighter who was very well managed. He was able to take advantage of a weak division and made only six defenses against has-beens, B list fighters and old men, and struggled against them.

Can't compare that to a Joe Louis (25 defenses - still the most ever in any division), Muhammad Ali (3 time champ, who fought and beat some of the greatest heavyweights to ever step in the ring), Larry Holmes (20 defenses and a five year reign) or Evander Holyfield (4 time champ who fought and beat most of the fighters in arguably the second greatest heavyweight era in history).

Answer 12

ROCKY WAS A GREAT FIGHTER NO DISRESPECT

Since Marcaino's biggest claim to fame is largely based on his undereated record you really have to question his the quality of his opponets.

Joe Louis is probably the biggest name on Rockys record however Louis was 37 years old and was fighting just only becasue he owed the goverment money he lost fighting in the war. Louis had lost his speed,reflexs.and most importantly his power which made him seamingly harmless. Right ? wrong Joe still had his moments in the fight and a lot of people were more impressed at how impressive Joe looked in losing than Marciano did in winning.

Joe Walcott when he met Marcaino he was 38 years old and was one fight away from retirement. With this being a factor he still dominated Marcian fromt he onset of the fight even knocking him down outboxing him until he was knocked out in round 13. If that fight would have happend in the 12 round era he would have been defeated. He beat Walcott in the rematch but the fact that he was outboxed for 13 rounds by a man that was basically a shell of himslef is really questiable.

Ezzard Charles wasnt as old as Louis or Wallcott but he too was years past his prime. In fact Charles had fought over 90 times and slowed down by countless wars. However when he still managed to make the fight competieve winning a large amount of early rounds and their are people that felt the fight should have been a Draw or a decison for Charles.

Archie Moore another fighter Marcaino is credited for beating.Moore had 177 fights and was 38 years old. Now let me ask you this if a guy this day and age beat a 38 year old man with 177 fights would he be respected?. The answer is no regardless of who the fighter was when a guy has been in so many wars,fights,rounds sparring and at that age its really hard. Back then guys wernt making 20 millan a fight and PPV numbers most of those old fighter like James Braddock were fighting just too be able to eat. Moore also gave Marciano a very compitve fight knocking him down and cutting his face too.

When you have a guy that is being outboxed by 40 year old men and guys with 100's fights,but Marcaino fan always find some make believe senaro were he beats Ali. Rocky defended his title 7 times which is nothing in that day in age and now. Joe Clazaghe did that does that mean Joe is the Greatest fighter of all time? Or Floyd Mayweather is undfeated does that make him the greatest fighter of all time? Larry Holems defended his title 17 time and cleaned out his divison for years,but Larry gets pushed back becasue he didnt beat an undfeated streek not. Lets not mention the fact that he defended his belt ten more times than Rocky lets just talk about the undfeated streek. Then the fact that he never fought a young Sonny Liston or Floyd Patterson is very weird too becasue he still had about 4 good fights left in him. Back then there was no WBO,WBC,IBF,IBO,NABF, USBA,or interm belts. There was one champion and everyone knew who he was and who was next in line too fight him. Rocky gets to retire and never fights these you challengers, the public never even questions was he ducking them. Floyd Patterson fought for the Vacent belt that Marcaino left behind so he was deffinatly title ready. Was Marcaino scared too lose ? I dont know but if you putt every great Heavyweight Champion in the same era and the same Divison their are a handfull of guys that beats him. If you put Sugar Ray Robinson in with all the best Welteweights at his prime and on his best night are there a handfull of guys that beat him not so much.

I respect him and everything he meant to hard working italian famliys and Boxing. Its just defending you belt 7 times with guys years past there primes and retiring without really defending the throne dosent scream greatness too me. I am just stating the facts.

Answer 13

ACEMAN, I wonder that myself sometimes, it seems these people simply don't appreciate true greatness.  They do the same thing to Ali, and it sickens me.  Boxing should be color blind, we all bleed red, and Rock bled as much as any.  Marciano earned the respect of any true boxing fan, and most certainly earned the respect of the boxing community as a whole.  People who disrespect Marciano are simply ignorant, immature and uninformed.  They remind me of the red necks who call Ali a coward for refusing induction into the military, such dim witted stupidity transcends any racial or color boundary, I consider such people intellectually retarded.  I pity them in their ignorance.

Answer 14

Maybe I'm missing something because I haven't seen too much criticism of Marciano except by a few.  They seem stuck in their beliefs with little or no point to state their case so I dont really feed into it.  You can't just tell me  a champion is not good if you can't produce a valid point.  I see this with a few here.  

I see a lot of praise for Rocky too, as it should be.   Though some have a bit of an unrealistic view of him you still can't argue the fact that he defeated everyone during his time.  

Rocky was a great champion in every sense of the word.  He was great in the ring and great for the sport.  His opposition wasn't as strong as was in other eras but who before him had better?  Maybe Joe Louis but that's it.  Besides, you dont KO 43 of 49 opponents by being a 'nobody'.  

In reality, I don't  think Rocky would beat some of the later day champions.  He's simply too small.  For example, some have him beating Lennox Lewis.  That's just NOT possible.  Look at the dimentions of both men alone.  However, overall, Rocky  has to be ranked among the best.  Anyone who can't see that just doesn't know boxing very well.

Answer 15

ACEMAN, people can say what they will about Rocky Marciano, but the fact remains that he never lost, never ducked anyone, was always in superb condition, had more heart, courage, toughness and determination than anyone that ever stepped inside a ring.  His training regimen was possibly the toughest of any fighter ever and he actually loved to train to get into the best possible condition for his fights.  He would run up to 12 miles a day wearing out his trainers who actually went in shifts to keep up with him.  He trained like a Spartan hitting oversized heavy bags, and throwing punches underwater for long periods of time to build up his strength which he had plenty of.  His actual normal weight was over 200 lbs so in reality he was not as small a man as people think.  He trained purposely to get down to 187-188 lbs for his fight to increase his endurance and stamina.  This was one of the main reasons why Rocky could knock you out in either the 1st or 15th rounds.  Rocky's defense is also vastly underrated too!  Everybody thinks he was a punching bag willing to take three to land one which is not true at all!  Go to youtube all you unbelievers and check out the Rocky Marciano underrated defense which shows his fights in slow motion.  He would roll, duck, and slip punches.  He was good at avoiding jabs, blocking punches and used a low crouch to get inside his opponents guard.  Even during wild exchanges he didn't forget defense as most brawlers do.  He was not a defensive fighter but he was far more than a tank that came forward too. He was much harder to hit for example than Joe Frazier.  His punching power was relentless and he was constantly throwing punches with power in either hand.  The punch he hit Walcott with in their first fight is easily one of the hardest punches in boxing history bar none!  He usually would wear down his opponents but if he hit you cleanly, you were out.  He busted blood vessels in LaStarza's arms and he hurt you wherever he hit you pure and simple.  Now for his opponents:  People want to say that he only fought old men.  When Rocky came into the picture, Walcott was the champion having won the title from Charles and defending it aginst him before Rocky got his shot. NEWS FLASH!! Walcott was the champion!  So Walcott was obviously in peak fighting form when they fought for the title.  Despite receiving a pummeling from Walcott with linament in his eyes, Rocky perservered and won.  Most men would have folded their tents wouldn't they?  Then their next fight he knocked Walcott out in the 1st round.  Then two great fights with Ezzard Charles followed, the first one being Rocky's toughest.  Still he came on strong during the championship rounds and won the decision.  In the rematch he knocked Charles out in 8 rounds despite a split nose.  In Rocky's last fight against Moore, old Archie had earned the shot by beating younger top ranked challengers Valdez and Baker.  This was not a novelty fight as Archie EARNED it.  Rocky went on to knock out Archie in 9 rounds.  Moore went on to remain light heavyweight champ for nearly 7 more years so he didn't sound too washed up. When Rocky fought Joe Louis, it was a fight he didn't want but a necessary fight for him to put him in line for a title shot.  Louis was 37 and not the fighter he once was, but not that easy either.  Joe was Rocky's idol and he hated fighting him.

Nobody will ever know how Rocky would have done against Ali, a younger Louis, and other alltime greats, but I bet he would have given any of them h**l!  He always came to fight, had tons of courage and heart, and feared nobody in the ring ever.  He was a great fighter and the man who refused to lose.  Great question sir.  Sorry if I went on a little long, but I get somewhat fired up when it comes to the late great Rocky Marciano.

Answer 16

He was the best. He had heart, punching power, a good chin but most of all he was humble when interviewed, a trait rarely find among today fighters.

Answer 17

I think few people have a genuine dislike for Marciano the person.  If you can throw out his use of elbows against Joe Louis's nose, Marciano was an honest, hard working fighter that got the job done EVERY time.  Now what comes after that, is where things get testy.

If you get 100 black-hating racist boxing fans in a room and get them to speak freely, they'll all agree that Rocky Marciano was the greatest heavy of all time.  To deny this simple assertion would simply be a failure to face up to the truth:  part of the Marciano idolatry is based upon race prejudice, I've met many an old timer that misses the good old days of white supremacy, my Italian grandfather (RIP) being one of them.  Marciano is, for many people, a symbol of a time where blacks were repressed and suppressed.  Whether fair or unfair, that's the way it is.  That's PART of the equation.  Black boxing fans are well aware of this, and this is what leads to a lot of the antagonism.  It's palpable to me, and I'm just a white guy, for folks who have lived it, I'm sure it's disgusting on a personal level.

As far as the remaining folks that consider Marciano the greatest ever, it's my opinion that those folks hold something against Muhammad Ali, being  Ali's trash talk or his political/religious stances.  They don't seek to uplift Marciano as much as they want to downgrade Ali.  But whatever people think, it's my opinion that anyone that thinks Marciano is the greatest of all time, is biased in one way or another, and simply is not rating the pantheon of great heavies with any kind of impartial judgment.

I like to think that I've got a pretty good idea as to how to rate the all time greats.  I watch and study film, over and over and come to conclusions on my own, factoring out as much of my bias as I can.  I watch a Marciano fight and I see a strong, but slow man that never really got into the ring facing a tough, primed opponent.  Not Marciano's fault, mind you, but I can easily picture an athletic fighter staying clear of the bombs and frustrating RM.  Now here is where the Marciano fans really come after me:  it's my opinion that, out of all the great white fighters, Marciano comes in 3rd place behind Dempsey and Tunney.  Both of whom, I believe, would have better flourished during Marciano's era, and I believe that a great many fighters would have had less trouble with the opposition.  I can picture Gerry Cooney going 49-0 in those same very circumstances and going down as truly the greatest of all time, which would be a travesty.

My opinion is that Marciano got the job done every time, belongs somewhere in the pantheon of great heavies, but anyone that rates him the greatest is simply bending their rational judgement to believe something they want to believe.  So that's where I believe the over-rating occurs.  As a whole, I think your average boxing fans does over-rate Marciano a bit.  Something how like Ricky Hatton was over-rated until he fought an athletic guy with skill.  I think Marciano would have been exposed against a guy like Tunney, Ali or Holmes, similar to what Mayweather did to Hatton.

On a side note, an old friend of mine was a boxing fan, and he happened to be black.  Whenever anyone started to talk about all time greats, he'd quickly mention to anyone that would listen that Rocky Marciano was black.  Straight face and all, he would say that Marciano's back and legs were too strong to be from white blood.  He'd go on to say that what made Italians so tough, was Hannibal's soldiers leaving their seed in the women as they marched through Italy.  That the genetics would carry through to this very day, and any time you have an athletic Italian, it can be traced back to Hannibal.  Later on, I realized what he was doing:  judging the white guy's reaction to what he was saying.  If the white guy, me, reacted with anger, then he'd know that I was racially biased.  If the white guy reacted with disbelief or laughter, then he knew he wasn't dealing with a biased guy.  Suffice it to say, I reacted with disbelief and laughter.  I would counter his assertions in different ways, as he and I could speak openly about things, but I couldn't repeat them here in this forum.  Some troll out there would be offended at a frank and humorous discussion of race relations.  The point of all this being that black folks are well aware of the racial aspects of any discussion of Marciano.

Answer 18

Rocky was a great champion, regardless of what the critics say.  And not only a great champion, but unlike the pretty boys of today that pick their spots, he could give and take with the best of them...and thats what made him exceptionally tough.  Just when you thought he was beat, he knocks you out!

I do believe there is also a certain bias directed toward Italian fighters.  But we don't owe boxing anything.  We have had some of the toughest, well skilled and gritty fighters, not to mention champions, to ever grace a boxing ring.  Marciano, Graziano, La Motta, Pep, Giardello, Giambra, Benevenuti, Antuofermo, Mancini, Gatti and so many others.

These fighters were true warriors and very few boxers today have the guts to carry a fight and endure like some of these fighters.  The only fighters today that could fall into this category are the Hispanic fighters, who take on all comers and are gritty and can endure.  My respect to all these great fighters, including Rocky.

Answer 19

Marcianio set the blue book on how to baby a fighter. In the past, a fighter could take a loss and it wouldn't be career ending. Is Robinson below Marcianio because he had a few off nights and lost a few in the hunded plus fights he was in?

Now, got so many protected fighters with "0" on their padded records.

Marcianio is still talked about today because retired undefeated. Just watch the man fight, and he was a limited fighter that beniftted from a weak division, and great management.

People put to much stock in undefeated records and not the quality of opposition.

Example, people were over-hyping undefeated Hawaii yet they didn't beat a legitment team, and when they did, Georgia, who lost a few games playing against good teams, they got steam rolled over 41-10.

Answer 20

You know I have Rocky Marciano in my top 10 heavyweight list. He came along at a good time when the Heavyweight division was in shambles, as many other boxer in history that were great but always will be critized. Jones Jr came in his weight classes while they were greatly diminished, Joe Louis came in on the end of a once good division at his time. Still they get dissed and they are great fighters. Marciano should get his respect by all boxing freaks as ESPN'S Dan Rafael calls us, but some people are not real fans. Marciano destoyed everyone put in front and he beat good contenders old or young. Now how he would have faired against some of the fighters in their primes like Charles or Louis remains in doubt, but he did something no other boxer has done walked away from the Heavyweight division a champion and undefeated......

Answer 21

because he was overrated and protected.

"Cassius Clay was a rising star when he kayoed Archie Moore years after Rocky did, but Rocky gets critiqued for fighting an old man?".....so did Clay.

Clay only went to be beat guys that were great and his age and in their prime. Marciano didn't. EVER....not once fight one fight against a GREAT his age for crying out loud.