Why will hho or browns gas not improve your mpg?

Question

if it is helping combust the fuel that would usualy go out of your exhaust and be converted by the catilytic converter? and draw a low enough amp and volt draw from the alternator that it wont make a signifigent drop in mpg "if any"

and please dont answer if all you have to say is its a scam or it wont work

please give me some facts and when mentioning the laws of thermodynamics and energy conservation that you are using the "potential energy" of the usualy unburned gasoline along with the hydrogens

Answer 1

let me start off by saying Hydrogen is a great option for the concept of free energy.     I built my first hydrogen cell about 5 years ago. Have converted over 50 vehicles in the last 10 years (gydrogen and EV) and now currently run 2 trucks (and another EV), my home hot water heater, home stove and home generator on hydrogen for free with caught rain water and the help of a $10 solar panel.  I offer a step by step DIY guide to walk anyone interested threw the process. You can find it at www agua-luna com or you can email me.

There are basically 3 safe ways to make and use it... chemically, electrically and molecularly, the first 2 being easier so I'll only discuss them here. The fallowing steps were taking directly out of a DIY guide I offer to those who would like to run their vehicles or home on hydrogen safely. The entire guide is available at www agua-luna com

    On demand h2 generators are a bit different from the Hollywood versions like seen Chain Reaction with Keanu Reeves, that tend to explode violently every time a film is being made. However when used in an on-demand system there is no storage of hydrogen and oxygen in its gas form, only liquid (water) and is only transformed into gas “on-demand” in small cylinder size amounts. It’s actually safer then gasoline as it doesn’t evaporate, creating explosive fumes in the tank like gas. the following were actually taken out of my $5 guide available at www agua-luna com

    Chemically

    1. You’ll need a 6inch x 1ft schedule 40 pvc pipe. With pvc cement glue a cap on the bottom and use a s***w on cap for the top. Drill a small hole (1/4inch or so) in the side close to the top, s******g in a small copper shut off valve. Place a few feet of stranded (food grade is good) flex hose to the valve and into the air intake of your engine (carburetor or fuel injections).

    2. Now crunch up a couple aluminum cans (beer cans, soda cans etc) and drop them into the pvc pipe, along with a couple cups of lye (Red Devil drain opener has lye in it, some Clorox and Drano’s do to).

    3. Then simply add water, s***w on the top and wait a few minutes.

    What happens in simplicity is that aluminum and lye don’t really get along so they battle, and as always the innocent civilians (water H2O) that the most casualties, by giving up its hydrogen and oxygen. This then builds up in the void of the pipe and is ready to be vented into your engine, by opening the valve. You may need to start your engine on gas then switch it off after the hydrogen starts burning.

    Electrical is a bit easier then Chemically.

    1. Simply take a small solar panel 1.5 amps is what I use ($9 at harborfreight.com), connect the 2 wires from the panel +- to 2 conductors (carbon cores of batteries work well, just be careful removing it from the jacket), but any conductive material will work ie. Copper, aluminum, steel, etc.

    2. Drop the wires into a water tank (I use 55gal drums), make sure they don’t touch each other.

    3. Drill a small hole (1/4inch or so) in the side close to the top, s******g in a small copper shut off valve. Place a few feet of stranded (food grade is good) flex hose to the valve and into the air intake of your engine (carburetor or fuel injections).

    4. Then simply add water, s***w on the top cap and wait.

    After a few hours tiny bubbles will form and rise off one conductor (that’s hydrogen) and even smaller bubbles that just looks like foam will rise off the other (oxygen). I don’t remember which likes the positive and which likes the neg hydrogen or the oxygen.

    The third method is more complicated and is what I use for my vehicles. It’s just a modified Joe’s Cell, there’s a step by step DIY guide available to walk you threw the process here www agua-luna com

It also covers the other 2 methods described in more detail.

www agua-luna com

Hope this helped, feel free to contact me personally if you have any questions if you’d like assistance in making your first self sufficient steps, I’m willing to walk you step by step threw the process. I’ve written several how-to DIY guides available at  www agua-luna com on the subject. I also offer online and on-site workshops, seminars and internships to help others help the environment.

Dan Martin

Alterative Energy / Sustainable Consultant, Living 100% on Alternative & Author of How One Simple Yet Incredibly Powerful Resource Is Transforming The Lives of Regular People From All Over The World... Instantly Elevating Their Income & Lowering Their Debt, While Saving The Environment by Using FREE ENERGY... All With Just One Click of A Mouse...For more info Visit:  

www AGUA-LUNA com

Stop Global Warming, Receive a FREE Solar Panels Now!!!

Answer 2

One of our problems in a gasoline engine is the  inability to reduce our fuel air ratio to get smooth combustion when our engine is not working hard.

When working on light load we would expect that like a diesel it could be leaned out, keep on burning just enough fuel to keep it operating smoothly.

But gasoline engines stop functioning well when leaned out. We get away from part of that problem  with browns gas. And, only if we lean the fuel to air mixture along with adding browns gas do we get any significant improvement in economy. That is empirical with no explanation.

When we use browns gas in a diesel, we get better torque with very low fuel input. We do not get better torque when we are pouring the fuel on, making it smoke a bit. so if most of the time a trucker is pedal to the metal it may  have little benefit. This should suggest running in a lower gear so that the engine is not working so hard?

Most engines get pretty good combustion when operating close to maximum torque, but browns gas appears to extend that to times when one is running along with less fuel going in.

This might require quite a bit of sophistication to get to an optimal way to use it.

I would be much more confident of this if it were being marketed by a car manufacturer who might have built that sophistication into the machine.

Answer 3

it could if your fuel metering computer is programed to reduce the amount  of gasoline injected when the oxyhydrogen is introduced. otherwise the air flow sensor will read the hho as plain air & you will in effect run rich because part of what the sensor reads as air will actually be hydrogen fuel.

its just a matter of programing.

more efficency can be gained by using the anti detonation characteristics to allow a higher compression ratio in the engine, similar to the way the early 60s oldsmobile f85 used water injection to control detonation.

a higher compression will increase both mileage & power thats why tetraethyl lead was developed as an anti detonation gas additive in the 20s so engines could run higher compression ratios & use less fuel.

as it was thought that the worlds oil supplys would be exhausted by 1940 at the rate they were being used up in the 20s.

Answer 4

Won’t and can’t work.

Here’s the math. I left everything in BTUs because I already know the percentages (you can double check them if you wish, I would) and there is no need to convert BTUs to hp to kwh back to BTUs.

Assuming your engine is in perfect tune, you get about 20%-to 37% the energy you put into it back as work, you lose about 7% to friction and the rest is lost in the cooling system and exhaust. Now assuming your alternator is 55% efficient (remember this is a car alternator when you check the percentages), and let do the math.

Gasoline has a BTU content of 18,000 BTUs per pound.

So now we have 18,000 BTU to play with, assuming we have a very efficient engine we start with 18,000 times your engine efficiency so 18000 x 37% we now have 6660 BTU that are doing work. If our alternator that is 55% efficient our 6660 now becomes 3663 BTU (6660 X 55%). So to break EVEN that 3663 BTU must produce 18,000 BTU of hydrogen, and to increase your fuel mileage it MUST make more. Notice I didn’t include the power needed to break the hydrogen oxygen bond. At best you’re getting back 20% of the energy you put in back out.

I know they told you the alternator is wasting electricity, it isn’t, when you don’t need as much electricity your alternator doesn’t put it out and thus doesn’t use as much power from the engine. But there is NO way for 3663 BTUs to make 18000 BTU if it could you would be making more power then you use.

Something to think about.

If it really helped fuel mileage why are they not on new car? The car companies have to make the CAFÉ number and if it really increased the fuel mileage as much as they claimed up to 40%, they would be billionaires over night. Even if you believe big oil got to the US car companies and the government, why wouldn’t Japan, a country that imports ALL its oil, not be putting this on their cars? Or India, China, ETC. Think about it Big oil would have to kill this device in every county that produces cars, including South Africa which is producing ethanol to end their dependence on oil. And they would have to buy off all the testing results, and quash all the books, stop all the web sites. Notice that big oil still hasn’t quashed water4gas.com, or any other of the web sites pushing this device, strange.

EDIT

“you forgot to throw in the btu being lost out of the “

No I didn’t, I said “… and the rest is lost in the cooling system and exhaust” Notice the word exhaust.

“if that potential energy is used instead of wasted the engine is going to be more efficent, correct?”

Yes a car would be more efficient if the energy lost in the cooling system and exhaust was use, but nothing in HHO, Brown’s gas, or whatever they are calling it now, which will increase the efficiency of your car’s engine. HHO or Brown’s gas need one atom of oxygen and 2 atoms of hydrogen to burn completely, which is what HHO or Brown’s gas contains, so when you burn HHO or Brown’s gas you get back water. Water is nothing more then burn hydrogen, so when you break apart water you are basically un-burning it. And to “un-burn” water you need energy, something I didn’t include in my calculations, if I remember right you lose 10% of the energy you put in just to break the hydrogen oxygen bonds.

Now automobile manufactures spend millions of dollars trying to make their engines a fraction of a percent more efficient, if this device really worked they would jump on it., just like I said in my post.

“and just because an alternator is 50 percent effective dosent mean it draws 50 percent of the engines power “

Only half of the power you put into an alternator can be used for work, I took the extreme case of using ALL (not 50%) the power from your engine to produce HHO, or Brown’s gas, leaving nothing to move the car, run the lights, radio, nothing but making HHO or Brown’s gas. It was simpler to show that you get less energy back that way then saying you’re alternator can use only X% of your engine’s energy. It also meant one less calculation. But by showing if you took ALL the power from your engine and using it to make fuel, I wanted to show you how little fuel you’d make.

There isn’t that much in the way of hydrocarbons that leave your engine un-burnt. There is something close to 50 PPM (parts per million) of un-burnt hydrocarbons in your exhaust, even if HHO or Brown’s gas was able to burn that very small amount of hydrocarbon you couldn’t notice it, nor would you get back the energy you lost making the gas.

Answer 5

If u check your motor is not burning all the fuel that it takes in . So to add more fuel (hydrogen will displace more oxygen and u will have less combustion. U need more oxygen to completely burn all the gasoline and u would have excess oxygen to burn the hydrogen.