Winning or loosing a game by 8 ball break?

Question

I know there are some pretty knowledgeable pool players who answer questions on here and I want you to give me your best argument on why an 8 ball break should count as a win and scratching on said 8 ball break is a loss. Inlighten me please :)

Answer 1

There is only one valid argument for an Eight-off-Break win. If you are playing on a coin operated bar table someone has to pay for the rerack and this depends on whether you want to believe this is a "lucky omen" or a "foul." So I totally agree with this rule when the game or league is playing on coin tables but I don’t care how good you are, no two breaks can be alike or predicted so I see the snap eight as a fluke. As such, in sportsmanship, I can not class it as a "game foul" therefore; I would consider such a fluke as a "lucky omen" win and get the opponent to buy the next rack. If it wasn’t nickel and dimeing I’d offer to share the cost of the rerack.

However, I have nodded my head in agreement every time you have posted your belief that an Eight-off-Break as a win is an unskilled way to play the game. This theory is totally against any sportsmanship value. Sportsmanship was the intention when we all sat down globally in the early nineties to hammer out international rules that could take us to the Olympic Games. And this has been the steady successful movement of pocket billiards as evidenced recently when 2005 became the first time in history that Billiards were admitted as a medal sport in the world games, next step Olympics. We will go to the Olympics only because the world agrees to play with common rules based in Sportsmanship.

Our league plays on open tables with BCA rules that say its neither a win nor a loss, you simply spot the eight and continue play or rerack, on the breakers choice. I have played in leagues on coin tables so while I believe Eight-off-Break is a mechanical necessity to coin tables,  the player "appeal" of the slot machine style instant win game of chance is only “promoted” by those who do not know the difference. If you had a choice on an open table which rule would you choose? People playing in bar leagues already know why this is a win and are not the ones regularly asking this question. The Saturday night ball bangers do not know league rules or the game as a strategic skillful competition that self-challenges you to be your personal best.

Without the logic reason of using a coin operated bar table that knows no difference to return a break eight ball for further play, a fluke Eight-off-the-Break is actually worse than the bar rule that provides for an intentional foul that forces the penalty onto an incoming player by making them play from an inopportune place behind the head string simply because there is no skill involved in potting the eight off the break. Neither ideal is honourable or worthy of a skilled player. Neither can be considered sportsmanlike conduct. Neither concept is worthy of Olympic play.

When are we going to petition Aramith to make magnetic eight balls that get returned to the coin table like a cue ball so that all leagues may play with WPA/BCA sportsmanship rules?

Good Shooting

EDIT: Whoever gave this post a thumbs down, may be a hustler but is not a sportsman!

Answer 2

I understand your point about not liking the 8 ball on break winning. I recently lost a tournament because my opponent sunk thee 8 ball in on break. It can be frustrating to lose they way but when you are the one who makes the 8 than you feel really good. Most of the time odds are against you making it on break. I feel it should count as a win for that reason.  

I do not agree with th whole losing by scratching on break.  That is stupid as there is no  way to fully predict or completely control a break

Answer 3

I was surprised to find out that the IPT rules stated that pocketing the 8-ball on the break was a win. I think they were trying to appeal to bar players.

Answer 4

Most people who play competitive 8 ball play in bars, on bar tables. If that is the case, the only reasonable way to deal with an 8 on the break is to call it a win. You can say it's lame until you're blue in the face, but if you can't provide an alternate that does not require people to pay for another game, that type of post is not constructive at all. It's just a very anti-league player attitude, and is very negative for no good reason. And I guarantee you that almost everyone who asks how to make the 8 on the break is primarily a bar table player.

I will be the first to say that when playing on a standard table, BCA/WPA rules are the best way to play. These are the most correct and universally consistent rules, and I will convey that to anyone asking rules questions. But that does not change the fact that it's in poor taste and not constructive to criticize league and bar tournament rules when you obviously do not even play in this format.

EDIT: Just wanted to remark on the opening of the tables suggestion. I agree that most league locations open up the tables, but if you read the policies of every major league, this practice is optional. Every national league tournament I've been to (and I've attended many since they're often here) required all of the games to be paid for by the players. I'd speculate that without requiring people to pay the $1 per game, they would not be able to afford to have the tournaments at all.