Would a North American Union really be that bad

Question

The European Union and South American Union work.Why wont a North American Union. and please dont say it would only benifit Mexico, Mexico's not that poor they arnt even a third world county.

Answer 1

Yes and No.  States in the unions give up independance in exchange for a no trade barrier zone.  There are many euro countries that now can't do things with their own countries that they once could do as sovreign states.  

I do think a no-trade zone would be economically beneficial but we don't need a euro style organization to do that.  We can just make nafta like agreements that eliminate trade barriers and each country still retains its independence.  

Answer 2

Whenever I see a question like this posed by someone whom I assume is a civilian — by that I mean someone who is not a member of the CFR or a high level banker, financier, or mega-corporate player who would stand to make a great deal of money from such a "Union" — the questioner never says what would be so GOOD about it. Only, "What would be so bad about it?".

First off, international free trade does not need NAFTA or WTO-style government regulatory schemes — which are nothing more than totalitarian power-grabs —  to function just fine. Commerce looks after itself if left to itself.

Secondly consider the erosion of civil and suffrage rights of the populations subjected to the huge beaurocratic establishment which would be the inevitable by-product of large-scale government.

The more central and consolidated a government is, the less an individual's voice will be represented. Under a huge, remote and bureaucratically oriented government you can kiss your personal influence on policy good-bye. Take a look at what is happening now in the European Union. Those poor people are going to find out soon enough all the wonderful benefits of living under the thumb of politically insulated beaurocrats, power mongers, and bankers.

Thirdly, what recourse would citizens or local governments have to fight a tyrannical law under an NAU? Currently in the United States the Constitution is written so that the federal government is an agent of the States, not the reverse, but the whole trend in recent years is to make the States into agents of the federal government. Do you seriously expect that an NAU government is going to allow any sovereignty to individual States, Provinces or Countries? If you do, you need to take a hard look at history, and not just the history of the United States.

Centralized government has NEVER worked ultimately for the benefit of the people. It is because of this that the United States was founded on the exact opposing principle: that the federal government is an agent of the States, that government might remain in the peoples' hands.

The Constitution of the United States is unique among the existing constitutions on this planet, both in the way it structures government, and in the guarantees of liberty and natural rights that it makes to citizens. It in fact is a thorn in the side of the powers seeking to establish a world government, for those very reasons.

Fourthly, how about unwieldy and confusing elections. Have you looked at the current presidential election process in the United States? The confusion over fundamental issues, the flip-flopping of the candidates? And what, we want to add into that mix the adjunct and — under an NAU — now relevant issues of the sub-states of Mexico and Canada?

I'll say it once more (and anyone buying into the supposed benefits of an NAU or EU needs to remember this) —



The bigger and more centralized the State, the less your individual voice will count in the political process, and the greater the possibility that you will find yourself under a bureaucrat's thumb, a banker's foot, or a tyrant's whim with no possibility of redress.

Someone wiould benefit from an NAU, for sure, but it will not be citizens interested in self-governence, a truly free market, unimpeded commerce and guaranteed individual rights.

Answer 3

There was a Union in The U.S.A.  During The Civil War the forces fighting slavery had that name. The Confederacy seceded from The Union. The North American Union would be different as there would be no slaves and it would be in the 21st Century. The way it would work would be to combine the rights of each nation . This means that all the citizens in it could oppose tyranny as a right.  Another point if citizens had Civic Currency the could have more redress as the would mint  it themselves. Perhaps this could be put in The Constitution of The N.A.U.   Inked designed by each citizen.

Answer 4

It cans the constitution. and would reduce wages to peon levels.

Answer 5

It throws away the constitution

Answer 6

It would work if the 3 nations work to meet certain goals before starting the Union, and to those people thinking it throws away the constitution, it doesn't, the EU, African Union, and South American Union nations all have their constitutions still in effect and are above those three unions constitutions mentioned above.

A North American Union is inevitable, give it 20-50 years and it would happen.  

Answer 7

That is the worst idea ever. Only traitors want to lose sovereignty to socialism.

Answer 8

Because we like being Canadian over here and Americans should like being Americans over there. We will lose all sovereignty when the Amero comes. These unions are for corporate profits, elite bankers are trying to create the future world we live in. That's right greedy, selfish bankers are forming our childrens future. Us Canadians are not happy Harper is trying to push this through without a vote or even a debate. Stop the NAU!!!

Answer 9

Yes, devastating for the middle class. It is being done now behind closed doors. The official program is the Security & Prosperity Partnership. The government claims innocence but the end game is clearly a union like European Union. NAU is for the benefit of corporate interests. As we speak the laws of the three countries are being harmonized. Guess who gets input into the laws. Not the people. Fortune 500 companies, big-pharma, big-chemical, big-media, etc. Add to that all the cheap labor that will flood the American and Canadian labor markets with NAU and the corporations are sitting pretty.

NAU will erase the middle class and small business in North America. It won't happen all at once. It will be gradual. I ask you--after about 20 decades of farming jobs out to China, how is our middle class fairing now? NAU will be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the middle class.

The laws get rewritten to incorporate decisions by trade tribunals and even foreign governments. Once those laws are changed, further "law changes" can be done at the whim of the corporations that control the trade tribunals. Democracy is completely subverted.

The end game is corporate controlled government. That my friend is fascism.

Here is a good read to get a sense of what is happening. It is from a Canadian perspective but that makes little difference. NAU is not about America swalling up Canada and Mexico. It is about corporte controlled government for all people.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?c...

Two paragraphs from that nail it:

"Since March, 2005, under the direction of three senior cabinet ministers of each country, about 100 working groups of unelected officials from government and industry have been meeting at taxpayer expense deciding on and directing the implementation of  the restructuring of the apparatus of governance and  the form of rule over the people. Their command goes out  down the chain of bureaucracy expending vast amounts of taxpayer dollars implementing the changes in our border crossings, in our airports, on our airplanes, in our skies, on and to our roads and highways, in our personal identification systems, in our health, in our vaccines, over our food supplements, in our pesticide safety  levels, in our schools and  universities, in the exploitation of our natural resources-our rivers, lakes, oil, gas, in our environment, in the arms industry, in the manufacture and use of  depleted uranium, in the exploitation of and experimentation on our indigenous people and our military personnel, in immigration, over our right of Habeus Corpus, in our right of due process, our right to assemble and our freedom of speech, etc., etc.

Government of the people, by the people, for the people has been eliminated while those people we have elected stand idly in the sidelines apparently blissfully oblivious, or deliberately careless  of the termination of their policy making role except as a rubber stamp. Those we have elected have abused their responsibility to protect our power, the people's power.  They have permitted an undemocratic elite  to control them and the operation of government. It is by us, the general citizenry, that Members of Parliament and Members of Legislative Assemblies and city councillors,and Senators and congressmen are supposed to be ruled in all matters, not by the military/ industrial/ complex that General Dwight D. Eisenhower warned about on his final address to his nation. The Prime Minister  and Presidents along with their most senior Cabinet members and officials really now do apply a "Divine Right of Kings" mentality to their role. They have metamorphosed into a cancer rotting the life out of our democracies."

- Connie Fogal

In terms of laws affecting everyday people, North American Union is being done the opposite to the way European Union was done. For EU, the union came first without harmonizing the laws. That harmonization is taking place now and Europeans are shocked at how they are being dictated to by Brussels for matters they expected would remain with member country jurisdiction. Our media keeps that under wraps because our media is owned by a small group of giant media conglomerates that want the North American union for profit reasons. They don't tell us the truth about EU to avoid tipping us off.

For NAU, the harmonizing of the laws is being done first. I expect we will see an open move toward a union when that harmonization is about 75% complete. Until they the government and media keep quiet to avoid waking us up. When it is too late to turn back, we will be asked to trade our Constitution for a North American Union. If the pattern follows EU in the respect, we are in for a rude awakening.  Research with the UK loses in terms of civil liberties and protections by adopting the Lisbon Treaty (European Constitution). The same will happen here and you can count on losing your 2nd amendment rights. Thats why they want the Real ID. At some point there will be a weapons recall and Real ID will come in very handy for that.

In 2007, honest politicians (yes, we have some) introduced a resolution in Congress (HCR40) to stop the efforts to create a North American union. So far, there are 48 cosponsors (it will take many more to put a stop to NAU). View the bill at govtrack.us.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd...

Snopes.com claims North American union is myth. If that is so then why does HCR40 exist and why are all these states formally opposing the efforts to create a North American union?

Arizona -- HCM 2003

Idaho -- SJM 113

Kansas -- H.C.R. 5033

Missouri -- H.C.R. 17

New Hampshire -- HCR12

Ohio -- HCR31

South Dakota -- SCR13

Montana -- HJR 25

Utah -- HR1

Virginia -- HJ86

Georgia -- SR124

Hawaii -- SCR96

Illinois -- HJR29

Oklahoma -- SCR10

Oregon -- SJM5

Florida -- S670

Pennsylvania --HR278

South Carolina -- SCR416

Tennessee -- SJR088

Texas -- HB 3647

Washington -- SJM8004

Alabama -- SJR68

There was a small victory recently in blocking the NAFTA superhighway. It will be short lived unless we press our congressmen to support HCR40 under threat of voting them out.

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2008/ts...

If you care about freedom, democracy, opportunity and prosperity for people, now is the time to act. The NAU is moving quickly. My guess is some of the main globalists behind this  (the likes of David Rockefeller and Kenry Kissinger) are getting on in years. For sure they would like to see their new world under well underway before they pass on. For the life of me, I cannot think of any other reason why they turned up the accelerator for the new world order as they have during the past 10 years. They have been working on it for more than half a century, so why now the fast pace? In a sense it is a good thing because by proceeding so quickly they will make mistakes which will allow us to stop it IF WE ARE AWAKE AND AWARE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING.

EDIT.

This new Canadian bill is a good example to illustrate how the governments are using the SPP to harmonize laws in a way that subverts democracy.  Under the SPP program, all three countries agreed to harmonize their laws governing food supplements & vitamins.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTI...

(Note that for many years the pharmaceutical giants have been lobbying here and in Canada (and WTO as well) to try to stamp out natural remedies and supplements. They cannot patent a natural substance nor make a ton of money on it so they use their clout to make the natural substances illegal.

It looks like Canada gets to go first. Their new food supplements bill is C-51. This discussion paper linked here compares the old new law to the new law so you can see exactly what they are up to.

http://www.healthcanadaexposed.com/c51/l...

Be sure to observe the changes that allow trade agreements to become law without approval of the legislative body. Note also the change to the definition for "government" . It was changed to add "a government of a foreign state or a subdivision of a foreign state"  and "an international organization of states".  Each country can simply incorporate SPP and trade agreements, an the directives of foreign states or unions, into its own laws by reference. THE RESULT IS THAT UN-ELECTED BUREAUCRATS MAKE LAW WITHOUT THE PEOPLE HAVING AN OUNCE OF SAY IN THE MATTER.

Also observe the "police state" provisions in the bill. The increase in fines for offences and the power of search and seizure granted to government is mind boggling. It appears we are not the only North American country turning into a police state.

The health bill is coming to America as well. The only question is "when".  I used the Canadian health bill as an EXAMPLE of how democracy is being subverted to create a North American union. The Canadian media is just as corporate-controlled as our media. I checked Canadian main stream media web sites and find very little reporting about the health bill. Like here, I suspect the vast majority of Canadians have no idea what is going on behind closed doors.

The FDA is in on this too. I searched their site a while back and found everything so obfuscated it would have taken hours to collate the information so I put it aside for a rainy day.  Here is an interesting article re the FDA's involvement and some history here. As I mentioned, the pharmaceutical giants have been lobbying for restriction on supplements for a couple of decades. That is covered briefly in this article.

http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?...