Would this count as a misunderstanding of homophobia?

Question

Inspired by a previous comment based on a misunderstanding of homophobia:

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“Many feminists, as part of their feminism, fight homophobia, which is often a form of sexism. Homophobia as sexism is based on an *adherence to rigid, traditional gender roles and intolerance of those who do not*, which is one of the things feminism tries to fight; although it respects the rights of men and women to be traditional if they choose, it doesn't want these roles to be forced.

Not only does fighting homophobia and strict gender roles benefit g*y men and transgendered people, it also benefits straight men, especially adolescents. *Many high schools throw around the word "f@g," and direct it at any boy that doesn't meet their standards of "manliness."* Feminism fights this by saying, "Men are men regardless of interests and regardless of career choice, and women are women regardless as well."

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I think this comment lacks an understanding of what homophobia is, mistaking it for genderphobia, the later being much more common in western society. Assuming they are the same goes under the assumption that g*y men and a lack of masculinity are synonymous, which is false since many are not.

In a lot of these situations the word “f*g” is swinged around just as commonly as @asswhole, and refers more to someone being a wimp or a coward rather than the person being g*y. Though many middle class citizens still see this as a derogatory term towards homosexuals. Please note that gender and sexual orientation are entirely different concepts.

This same pecking order to fight for dominance is seen in the animal kingdom with packs, with males non-verbally attempting to put down other males in order to gain their alpha status. This consistent trait is probably both a combination of nature and nurture, though many social “scientists” view it as being entirely determined by nurture.

Do you agree that genderphobia (fear of gender non-conformity) is much more different than homophobia (fear/intolerance of homosexuality)?

Answer 1

I think both phobias go hand and hand together and are too hard to try and separate.  Why make the effort anyway?  Bigotry is bigotry right?  Is it really worth getting embroiled over semantics?

Answer 2

yes i definitely think that the two things are completely different, and agree with you, but the thing is that most people view both things as different to their own nature and start hating it.

i mean, hate is hate, a phobia is a phobia, categorizing the two hates differently won't stop people from hating.

Answer 3

I completely agree.  In the large majority of these cases it is not the sexual orientation that is truly being attacked (homophobia), but the person's gender (genderphobia as you called it).  However I think those that came up with the term "homophobia" (most likely those fighting against the hate) have done a disjustice to homosexuals.

By calling this discrimination of gender ("manliness" or "womanliness") homophobic, they make the assumption that the gender of homosexuals is also an issue, when often times it is not.

Answer 4

I'm not sure - I think the person you're quoting might actually be on to something.  I think homophobia probably can be tied to a general fear of people denying their socially assigned s*x roles.  I've never thought of homophobia and sexism as being based on the same fear, but this might be true.

I do, however, also agree with you on the word f*g, or even the words g*y or q***r which are sometimes used by straight people as derogatory without necessarily referring to anything homosexual.  But it is a poor choice of words, because it implies an intolerance to homosexuality, and if that is not your intended implication, then you're doing yourself a disservice.

Eohan - this is just a tip for you, if you have to preface a statement with "no offense" that probably means that subconsciously you are saying something in the hopes of offending someone.

Answer 5

Oh wow, I was quote-dropped! :D

My statement was not saying that gender-phobia and homophobia are the same thing-- I was saying that a lot of people are threatened by the idea of men defying traditional gender roles, not by being effeminate, but by dating other men. (And use a derogatory term for that group, as you said, to mean wimpy or feminine-- which puts down not only the person it's being used against but the group as well.)

(Many g*y guys I know would not be called "feminine" in any way by most people)

Hope this clarifies things :)

Answer 6

This is an excellent observation, though I don't agree with it fully. I think you both have a point here.

On the one hand, yes, genderphobia and homophobia are two seperate types of behaviours, but they intersect with the same systems of oppression surrounding sexual identity/ sexual orientation and gender identity.

Although homophobia (fear/intolerance of non-heteronormative behaviours and people) and genderphobia (fear/intolerance of gender non-conforming behaviours and people), for certain people these two are almost indistinguishable.

For example, a L*****n is involved with a bisexual woman. The L*****n finds out her bisexual partner is M-2-F trans, feels her sexual identity as L*****n is discredited because the partner is not a "real woman". This is genderphobia on behalf of the L*****n who does not accept the legitimacy of the trans woman's gender identity based on her born/assigned gender.

The same trans woman becomes involved with a man. He finds out she is "not a real woman" and says he cannot be involved with her because she is really a g*y man. This is genderphobia, and homophobia intersecting. Both her identity as a woman and her identity as a woman relating to a man in this instance are being called into play here.

This same trans woman goes to a club with her friends, and is sexually assaulted by someone who repeatedly calls her a "f@ggot" during the assault. Is this homophobia or genderphobia? Both?

So, although I agree with you that genderphobia and homophobia are two distinct and seperate systems of oppression, I do agree with what this poster was saying in terms of the gender dichotomy and gender role dichotomy that they both rest upon. In theory they are both quite distinguishable, but in practice and in situ the lines tend to be a little bit more blurry, particularly for homosexually-identified people whose gender can often be called into question based on their sexual orientation, and even moreso for trans people whose sexual orientations and gender identity are called into question interchangeably on a regular basis.

In the interest of being sensitive and accepting of these situations, while recognizing the genderphobie and homophobia are different, it is essential to recognize how these systems of oppression intersect. I believe that the point here is that feminism attempts to recognize and fight both homophobia and genderphobia, as well as other forms of oppression jointly, without suggesting that they are all the same, but realizing that there are many different intersecting systems of oppression and that everyone has a different relationship to power, priviledge and oppression, based on their different identity roles.

Answer 7

Ultimately it comes down to nitpicking at semantics. The goal is tolerance for those who do not fit into societal norms of gender and/or sexuality.

If the end result is the same, tolerance, who cares what it's called?

Answer 8

Both are as different as day and night.

Answer 9

Without disrespect, there are a number of younger girls who post here and speak beyond their years and experience and view the world through rose coloured feminist spectacles.

Yes, to me the two are different.

Answer 10

Yes. Homosexuality is biologically ingrained and cannot be altered; gender is socialized and can be altered. Both phobias are unfair, to say the least, but in this light, homophobia is more so.

Answer 11

Actually, I think the first definition is correct, and incorporates your definition of genderphobia as well as other variations of q***r.

One of the common elements of harrassment and intolerance towards LGBT people has always been slurs on the appropriateness of their gender behaviour ! lesbians are frequently portrayed as man hating bull dykes, for example, even though stone butch lesbians make up about the same proportion of lesbians as of the population.

The base line is, stereotypes suck.

Cheers :-)