Yo Susie C, can you tell us who's best?

Question

You wrote:

NZ have only won one out of six World Cups and that was at home! The good thing for them is they are at home again next time so it could be No 2. A great team, yes, but the most successful team in history - you're having a laugh!!

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Care to tell us who is the best when you have finished your laugh.

Answer 1

Best at what exactly?

The quote I was referring to was that that said NZ has been the greatest sproting team in history! Quite a modest claim.

To be the best in the World in any sport, you have to win the big tournaments (ie when the pressure is on) as well as perform in the other tournaments/matches in between.

So Brazil in the football world would have a valid claim.

Australia in terms of Cricket perhaps.

Therefore I find it difficult to agree that NZ can justify that title.

Certainly NZ consistently play the best Rugby outside of RWCs.and were justifiably ranked No 1 comnig into the 2007 Cup.

But most sports fans measure world success on the big tournaments. Brazil comes to mind again. Or a Sprinter in terms of Olympic golds.

Therefore in rugby terms I fail to see how NZ can be called the most successful team (let alone the sporting team in the history of the planet!!)

Perhaps we should split the definition of success as including and excluding the Big Tournament.

Excluding it, NZ are the the most successful team without doubt.

Including it, they are not. Probably Australia?

I think you think I am anti NZ rugby. On the contrary, I love it.

But I don't like arrogant  bitter NZ fans who slate every other team every time they get knocked out of the World Cup. It must have got to me as I found myself even defending England!

My team failed horrendously in this world cup (and most of the previous, never having got beyond QFs) but I loved this World Cup for the surprises etc. You on the other hand only seem capable of negative posts against one or two teams. It is as if you resent them because your team 'should' have been there instead?

So if I use your mindset, my answer would be that Ireland are the best and the rest are pathetic rubbish ;-)

Answer 2

Yes Susan C please answer the question.

And one more question for you: are there any kiwis on the answers network that  you haven't called bitter ?

Little tip for you - we are not shy about letting people know when we are bitter. The day Ireland wins one test match against the ABs will probably make a few of us bitter, RSA winning the WC does not.

The RWC is a very young tournament - in time it will reflect the full history of rugby. It is not a vehicle to point and laugh at the ABs.

Finished laughing yet?

Debra M: who actually won the last test match between NZ and RSA ?

I thought NZ would still be the number one ranked team after the world cup - seems my calculations were wrong - I think the winner of the WC final gets twice as many points as is normally the case from the runner up - because it is actually a WCF . A little harsh on the runner up but the Bokke played a great tournament. I pray it's not the last time we see that team take the pitch. How will "transformation" affect the S14 teams?

Answer 3

in fairness NZ are the best team. they are the most marketable for a start.

they were the best team this last 4 years without a doubt. they may be the BEST team but not essentially the most succesful in terms of winning world tournaments.

Answer 4

Dont forget that South Africa has only been in four Rugby World Cups (because of the sporting boycott) and yet have won the Cup twice.  That would be a fifty percent success rate.  Pretty remarkable.  Springboks deserve being the number one team in the World.

Answer 5

So do you think this person is really Irish? It would be nice if this was confirmed by Susan C. or could it just be another deliberate ploy to mislead. (However, it would make me very ashamed of my cultural heritage if Susan C was Irish).

Also if it were the case maybe Susan C’s vehement anti NZ remarks have  resulted because of the Brian O’Driscoll incident in the Lions game at Christchurch NZ on 24 June 2005. Shame on you!!!!! Get over it. It’s rugby not a tea party!!!!! Celtic warriors of old were feared by all, for their ability to bounce back without crying, what has happened? It was two years ago already.

Susan C is very selective in the statistics she quotes. If anyone in this forum is truly interested in the statistics of All Blacks results since the first test match, visit the following website http://stats.allblacks.com/ and get the truth not some selective dribble.

On this note I have to get out of here. I do not suffer fools like Susan C, Diva and Mark M who are all pushing their own barrels and are totally ignorant in rugby terms. It makes me extremely angry and I've personally  found their despicable behaviour like a virus, easy to catch. Instead of sticking to facts, I have  been guilty of stooping to their level in this forum. My apologies to anyone I’ve offended.

These people are deliberating misleading genuinely interested rugby beginners. My plea to you beginners is ignore their comments they are based on personal agendas and not fact. Be discerning when it comes to any bias. Google your questions, the results will be much more reliable.

Answer 6

I think the All Blacks are the best major sports team in history.  In order to claim yourself as the best in history, you have to look at the history as a whole and not exclusively from World Cup results.  If you are placing so much importance on World Cup results then the Springboks would have a legitimate claim having won two now despite not being involved in '87 or 91.

Brazil have won 5 soccer world cups but they are the only team to have played in every one of those world cups (dating back to 1930) and their first didnt come until 1958 (28 years).  They also had a 24 year gap between 1970 and 1994 where they didnt win one.  By Susan's logic, they too should not be in the hunt for "Best team in history".

This is exactly why you can't put so much emphasis on World Cup results.  To count the All Blacks and the Brazillian Soccer team out of the equation for that non existant title of "Best Team" would be ridiculous.

Yes NZ have only one title, but like most major international sports, on any given day any top team can beat another and so far, only France, Australia and South Africa have done it to NZ in a RWC.  Lets not forget that only four teams have even won the RWC.  Teams with the huge rugby history of Ireland, Wales, France, Scotland and Argentina haven't won it, so does that diminish the hundred plus years of fantastic players and results in their history?

If Susan was having a go at someone saying NZ are the most succesful team in history, then I think she was wrong, I don't know of any major international team that can match up with their 74% winning percentage.  If she is basing that purely on RWC results, then I think she is blind, but correct.

***edit***

Susan, It's pretty easy to say why one team is not the best, but I notice you never answered the original question of who you think is the best.  Just another of the anti-NZ brigade it seems.

You are saying that they don't win the big important games as if the series clinching game of 1996 in South Africa wasn't big.  As if the hundred plus years or All Black rugby didnt have a big game with immense pressure until the RWC came along?  What about the RWC games they did win, the semi's in '95, 3 v 4 in '91 and 03, all of '87.  They won those games but I guess they are not "Big" games in your opinion... I'd like to see you tell the guys in the locker room, lacing up their boots for those games that they were'nt important matches.  Pretty easy to dwell on the negatives I guess.

Just a note... Brazil won their Second title at the 7th world cup,

Looking forward to being negative about whoever you think could be the best team in history.  I'd go with the NZ Womens rugby team if I was you... but then you'd still have to pick a NZ team... poor you!