Zeitgeist.com c**p OR CONSPIRACY?

Question

I am an former U.S. Army E-5, and support my country when, and how I can. I was inspired by my ideaological step-daughter to watch the Zeitgeist movie, and have found sensible and logical conclusions to alot of theoretical questions, and situations. I've done the math, read the books, looked, searched and wondered. I love the people this countries flag stands for, and the basis it was built upon, but I believe that our government is as corrupt as a pickpocket. I want to know if anyone else thinks that the radical ideas expressed in the Zietgeist.com movie are of logical and sound deduction as well. Do you think it's c**p or conspiracy, and please.. Be sensible, I intend to show the responses to my stepdaughter. She's 13.

Answer 1

I agree with your patriotism as well as condemnation of those that have abused the power for which they were entrusted. Kudos to the courageous in the media that investigate and expose these abuses.

With so much real-life material, you would think any documentarian would have no problem creating a ripping and factual expose'.

So it is a real disapointment to see a documentary like Zeitgiest pulls together so many unsubstantiated statements and untruths. There is so much questionable statements that can easily be refuted, or controversial points that have legitimate opposing views that should have been presented.

- Regarding part 1: Jesus

The "Mythology of Jesus" theory was an obscure and generally dismissed theory. It has gained exposure due to author "Acharya S" and her collaboration with the Zeitgeist filmmaker. (She is also author of the films companion guide)

Some other views:

" The idea of Jesus as a myth is rejected by the majority of biblical scholars and historians. In 2004, Richard Burridge and Graham Gould stated that they did not know of any "respectable" scholars that held the view today. Robert E. Van Voorst has stated that biblical scholars and historians regard the thesis as "effectively refuted"."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_...

For a point-by-point analysis, see http://www.conspiracyscience.com/article...

For more rebuttals, see http://webskeptic.wikidot.com/zeitgeist-...

- Regarding Part II: 9/11

It should be noted upfront that being skeptical of the 'official version' of anything presented by the government or media, is a good thing for society. And it should also be noted that questioners of 9/11 'offical versions' range from genuine intellectual pursuits of greater truths, to bizarre interpretations specifically intended to support a unwavering point of view.

The Zeitgeist filmmaker is part of that spectrum that has bought into the theory that the government orchestrated the whole thing. Unfortunately the evidence they selected and presented was sloppy and much of it easily disproved, even by members of the Truth movement. (I've heard some speculate this may have been a red-herring to discredit the 'truth' movement).

For a point by point analysis, see http://www.conspiracyscience.com/article...



- Regarding Part III: Men behind the curtain

As a liberatarian, I found this part to have had the most potential in exposing abuses of government and men in power. Instead, it trots out tired long disproven conspiracy theories.

"Income Tax law Doesn't exist" theory - Very stale. Consistently disproven over-and-over again. No new information, just new victims going to jail that fall for these arguments. Very sad.

"Federal Reserve System is owned by international bankers" - Still a common conspiracy theory. Still wrong. The Federal Reserve System, is headed by the Board of Governors, a Government Agency (look it up - http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/ind... ). The Federal Reserve branches can definitely be considered tightly regulated corporations owned by their member banks, all of which must be American-owned by law. It is receives regular audits, and is overseen by congress.

For a point-by-point analysis, check out:

http://webskeptic.wikidot.com/zeitgeist-...

http://webskeptic.wikidot.com/zeitgeist-...

http://webskeptic.wikidot.com/zeitgeist-...

Other views:

"There is no shortage of information which refutes this viewpoint. But this type of conspiracy relies on two elements common to web surfers: First, they're only willing to check facts at the most superficial level, which usually means they'll read a message or watch a clip just once before forming an opinion and moving on. " Ref:

http://media.wildcat.arizona.edu/media/s...

"...(a) common problem in the film: presenting something in such a shallow manner without further corroboration or scholarly evidence." - Ref:

http://gauntlet.ucalgary.ca/story/12284

There are those who defend the film because they believe that agenda+motive is more important than truth. There is a certain irony here since the films overarching thesis is to be wary of those who would obfuscate the truth in an attempt to persuade others to their point of view. Even more bizarre are allegations that detractors of the film must be agents of some sort and part of the grand conspiracy.

- Re: Considering the basis the Constitution was founded for, do you think that the founding fathers would be satisfied with the way the government is?

Not likely.

Jefferson was probably most concerned over the infringement of civil liberties.

Hamilton would have been distressed over how much the Federal government has taken over states rights.

Franklin would have been saddened at how much this beacon of democracy has fallen honor and respect of the rest of the world.

- Re: And do you think that since the Constitution was founded to give "The People" control over the government.. that we have that same initial balance?

The days when you could knock on the presidents door and have a chat, or invite your representative over for dinner, are long gone. Politicians need to pay more attention to their campaign contributers than the people to stay in power.

Too bad you didn't produce Zeitgiest. Maybe it wouldn't have turned out to be both the c**p and CONSPIRACY that it is.

- Re: If everyone is aware of all the facts, there wouldn't be a need for anything loosely resembling a "conspiracy theory", would there?

Ah, the whole psychology of conspriracy thinking could be used for several doctorate thesis'.

There always have been conspiracy theories and always will be. I've had more than half of century of personal and close relationship with conspiracy theorists.(There are certain parts of this country where is a way of life and taught from an early age.)

Your statement "if everyone was aware of the facts" is so simple and yet so ellusive. Just read the "facts" from "Loose Change", then read the "facts" from "s***w Loose Change".

There is something in the human called "Confirmation Bias" that we all have. What it means is that we interpret information based on our own life's experience and our pre-disposition. So a fundamentalist sees a "miracle recovery" as a sign of God, while an atheist sees it as part of a statistical recovery norm.

If one believes Bush masterminded 9/11, then all the pieces will fit that belief. If one believes it was Saudi hijackers,the pieces will support that. The human brain is wired to see patterns even where none naturally exist.

The main problem I have with most Conspiracy Theorists is the unwavering, blinder-like approach they take in life.

I prefer the objective skeptic point of view. The basis of it is that anyone with an agenda will slant messages per their agenda, whether that is government, business, media, web sites, or conspiracy theorists. In other words, every message is tainted and should be viewed as such.

Now it sounds like you may have a specific opinion or pre-disposition on this topic. I don't wish to dissuade you from it OTHER THAN to recommend you recognize you could be wrong and to seek out opposing views to test your view.

Of course always wondering if you're 'right' is a little discomforting for most people. Which is why most people gravitate to like-minded people like a church or listen to one-side talk radio. In that case, I would recommend just being honest with yourself about it; that this is the waystation you've chosen on life's journey and are content with it.

But you also indicated a 13-year stepdaughter into the equation...

I would highly recommend regardless of the guidance you give her, you also recommend that she learn to think for herself. That even though you will share the benefit of your knowledge and wisdom, that she should be encouraged to question it and come up with her own opinions.

... because, quite frankly, we need more people willing to question the status quo. Let's face it, most of the problems in this country are because lock-step thinking and not enough questioning.

I once heard a quote: "We are most likely to be wrong when we become convinced of our rightness". It's an important reminder of our human foibles and limitations.

Answer 2

Well, a lot of the stuff they had on the movie was pure speculation.  They didn't reference credible sources.  They showed little to no research.  It was pure conjecture in a lot of places.  I hate that they didn't cite stron sources for their information.  

And they pretty much ignored all the evidence that contradicted their conspiracy theories.  So, the entire thing was biased.  

Sure, they made some good points and had some interesting views, but that doesn't negate the fact that their scholarship was shoddy.

Answer 3

I believe you're right.

They actually coined the phrase conspiricy theory - to discredit any attempt to publish the truth.

Try getting sensible answers on why the dollar bill has so many secret society pictograms on it.

The countries government does not care for it's people despite what they say.

Answer 4

I've done some research myself but not enough to make a valid opinion. I believe that most of the movie is based on truths, not whole truths but truths nonetheless. Yes the government is crooked, incredibly crooked, but what nation's government is not. Honestly, what are we going to do about it. We know their crooked, they know we know. So whats the game plan?