"The Pot Calling the Kettle Black" Is this a reference to race and is its origin racist?

Question

Also, "Every Momma Crow Thinks Her Baby is the Blackest." Is this also founded in race? It would seem that dark is favorable in this context, so how it is derogatory if it is?

I am wondering because these word plays were brought up in an Anthropology class I am taking. The professors rhetorically asked us if we thought these had racial implications.

I have heard that the pots one is a reference to caste iron-literally it was black. And in the second, black crows.. but not the band.

Any insights?

Answer 1

They really were black, people try to tie race to too many things.  What other crow besides black ones exist?

Answer 2

that just means that you can't condemn someone for their faults when you have faults of your own.   the mama crow thing reminds me of my moms response when we would come in the house crying,faces all tore up......she would say that's a face only a mother could love. all moms thinks their kids are the most beautiful little creatures in the world.

Answer 3

No, the pot and kettle isn't to do with race. It's to do with hypocrisy. Like...

How can you say that when you...?

There's a list of similar sayings in wiki.

Answer 4

no its the same as dont throw stones if you live in a glass house...we shouldnt judge others when we have huge specks in our own eyes...all thesame meaning for these sayings..

Answer 5

No it's not a racial expression. It basically describes someone as a hypocrite. In the old days, pots and kettles were made of cast iron, which was often covered in soot. The two basically have the same function, so if the pot says to the kettle "haha you're dirty!" then it shows the hypocrisy of the pot.

Answer 6

The saying 'the pot calling the kettle black' is not a reference to race or racism at all.

I think it is an old saying pointing to the fact that you shouldn't critizise anyone else - when you might be guilty of doing a similar thing yourself!

Answer 7

I have used that expression myself many time and never thought of it as being racist.  

I always thought it referred to the facts that kettles used to be black.

Answer 8

Lol, my mom used to say ALL THE TIME

"boy, have you lost your ever lovin' cotton pickin' mind?"

sure it can be seen as racist

and sure she was prejudice against black folk

but did the words themselves hold any hate when she used them?

Nope.

Shes scared of black folk, she dosent hate them :]

Answer 9

Before modern kitchens were developed in the late 1800s, people cooked over a open fire in a fireplace.  The kettle would get black from the soot of the fire, but so would the smaller pots.  The kettle may be more obviously black but so were the pots.

The other people who answered that it is a reference to hypocrisy are correct.

Answer 10

It means don't be hypocritical.  The pot is literally the color black, the kettle is literally the color black.  Basically, don't call someone something if you are that same thing.

Answer 11

These are primarily wordplays meant to illustrate a point, the first about hypocrisy, the second about pride or vanity. While we might assume that calling the kettle black is a derogatory term, the phrase works just as well if it's not, as the real point is that the pot is black as well. The meaning is unchanged if the pot calls the kettle a cooking implement, or metal, or whatever. The crow phrase is similar in that the color of the crows is mostly irrelevant to the meaning itself. The mama crow might think her babies have the longest beaks, or the shiniest feathers, or that they caw the loudest, when all crows are pretty much the same.

Of course, that line of reasoning might lead us to wonder why the color black is used then. It might be coincidental, but in all honestly, I don't think it is. I think a good argument can be made that these sayings do have racial undertones. The vain crow, oblivious and ignorant in her unwarranted pride, doesn't care that her babies might have shiny feathers, she cares how black they are. While it's not strictly relevant to the meaning of the phrase, the pot is clearly calling the kettle black in a derogatory fashion. The correct usage of the phrase is to point out someone calling you derogatory things in a hypocritical fashion. These old adages throw the color black in a decidedly unsavory light. While I doubt anyone's going to prove there was racist intent here (at least originally) without doing some serious legwork at the library, I think it's clear there's more going on than just a simple lesson.

But then, there always is with these things.