<span title="Horses/wolves/grizzly/PETA/environmentalist/horse">Horses/wolves/grizzly/PET...</span> lovers all colide...?

Question

I live in Idaho. I'm a small farmer raising meat goats, and meat rabbits. I'm an avid horse lover. I have nine of my own, five of which are horses I've rescued.

The slaughter houses for horses have closed in the U.S. This is creating a unique problem...far too many horses nobody wants. I'm seeing adds for free horses in my local paper all the time now.

We have a new problem too. Farms/Ranches here in Idaho are often messured by the mile, not acre. Suddenly ranchers around here are finding abandoned horses on their property...and not just a few. Sometimes 10-30 in a month.

Many of these ranchers love horses, and don't want to shoot them. Of course they cannot afford to feed them either.

These abandonded horses are also attracting more wolves and grizzly bears to these ranches, causing even more loss of stock for ranchers as the bears and wolves learn to hunt for domstic animals.

Realisticly what should be done to solve this problem?

Answer 1

CONTROLLED ECO TOURISM

Grizz has a point that i want to elaborate on

The only thing i can think of is create what we call game coridors where farmers become unified in a common concept and remove fences to provide a more complete eco system.

with much more room to grow healthy or escape ,a fenced in animal is easy pray for any thing including disease.

And dig and design   water harvesting systems to improve humidity and ground water conditions ,and some trees to provide shade and encourage the prairie from coming back .so that there will be grazing again .and we could have herds of wild mustangs again ,and what ever else want to live there

.

I also like wolves

and i also like Grizzlies

as well as lions  and antelopes ,

but i cannot do anything about changing their diets.

But we can do something about improving survival conditions and increase their numbers ending up with everybody happy

except who happens to be lunch of course

but we cannot please everything all the time

the end result is always quality

And if their are enough rabbits and  bushes with berries the grizzlies will eat less horses who have more chance of getting away and who are in better conditions .

And the same goes for the wolves their usual main diet is mice ,groundhogs ,rats  

but it needs a healthy climatic prairie infrastructure to supply them

I am talking about going backwards ,so that there is something to look forward too instead of desolation and death

Farmers in their attempts to feed cows have destroyed most of the varied prairie grasses that provided a varied and complex eco system

so do this encourage Farmers to go back wards to farm Nature instead of domestic animals ,

this is not as mad as it sounds

Most of my friends in Africa who used to be farmers ,for corn ,asparagus ,beef ,sun flower etc ,have given it all up and now nurse the original flora and fauna to return ,they have turned their farms into lodges for city people ,who forgot what Nature is ,.

And in one place about ten neighboring farmers have joined the idea and ended up with an enormous stretch of nature including Mountains,rivers and valleys.

all have a different kind of lodge

ranging from Hippy back packers to high class executive or university visitors .who happily frequent  various of these places during one visit sleeping in one eating in another and partying some where else during their visit.

all the people involved win somewhere along the line

and the visitors have variety to make them want to stay longer  

If you asked one of these guys to go back to farming ,they laugh and say it is much easier and profitable to farm tourists.

And more beautiful to see antelopes grazing with out fear from the respectful hikers that are accompanied by a guide to check their behavior (and he got a well paid job).

Tourists . drink ,eat, sleep and pay ,what ever the weather  ,

And the Ex farmer does not loose any sleep or money if it does not rain ,the bar is always open .And if it rains they stay more in the bar .paying more money.

And i see no reason why this cannot work in America with buffaloes ,bears wolves mustangs,

Your potential market for city people to be installed with love and education of Nature is far  far bigger

i could not believe how many city people did not know milk came from animals ,they thought it was chemically made

and on a guest farm in Africa i sold tickets to watch the cows being milked

although cows is something we should get a way from apart from the odd milk cow to nurse our own babies ,

but i am sure they would thrive on Mares milk as well

BOHEMIAN THANKS FOR THAT IN DEPTH FOLLOW UP

maybe you should have said all that in the beginning,

unfortunately the kindest thing may well be extermination and feed the wolves or kill the wolves and feed the horses ,

and try and give as many of the horses away for free

the fact that the wolves are going for these big animals is proof that the eco system is in trouble not supplying them with what they usually live on .

I met the guy who wrote cry wolf ,and he told me in depth about their normal diet in a normal eco system ,he lived on the edge of them for a couple of years .

and ate raw uncooked mice to prove it that this was reasonable

to give a eco solution to an audience of animal lovers seems impossible .

and i still stick with trying to improve ecological conditions with water harvesting design if the rain does come back but this also involves a lot of expense although it will benefit the farmers in the end

what is the solution then ??

jellos answer or a sausage factory ,a horrible solution to a

a horrible problem

and poor horses i love horses .

and they are not cheap to transport either to better parts of the world for them

my best wishes

like to know what happens in the end

But it is not an isolated animal problem, the world as of now is full of these kind of problems ,most of them because loss of habitat and food .And it gets worse by the day

Every where

In Ghana the lions are hunting skinny people because they have killed all of their usual game

the future looks very sad from many perspectives.

Answer 2

When the aboriginal inhabitants of that area bred paints and appaloosas there were no fences and the horses, being prey animals, could run away or herd together to protect themselves.  The old and weak would die and their carcasses would help the strong survive.

Now ranchers have penned them in (both the horses and the Indians) and created an artificial environment where even the strong horses cannot survive their predators.

Either remove the fences or accept the losses.  Animals bred for meat and pleasure riding have no more right to be there than the grizzleys or wolves.  

It is time you all learned to love the wolves and bears as much as your stock and pets.  Nature does not work on the principal &quot;Kill the wild animals, save the fuzzy bunnies!&quot;.

http://www.highsierrafurs.com/exotics.ht...

Answer 3

Permaculture:

Wow, you are not joking we have been arguing about this question so there are two views in one answer: B my view and T, my husband&#039;s view BT is shared view

BT The problem is caused by man&#039;s irresponsibility. IF you have lifestock/keep animals then the duty of care of those animals falls squarely with the owner.

B If you chose to breed animals for financial gain, then the very act of doing so is exploiting the natural environment and encouraging predators. The distinction here is between growing your own food/meat and  creating surplus of a few species which attracts predators.

BT In the UK not caring for the horses would result in prosecution by the RSPCA.

BT Similarly if the horses are attracting predators to farms, then it is the Ranchers&#039; responsibility to ensure that their livestock come to no harm.

B AND that wildlife comes to no harm too. If predators kill livestock then Ranchers have no justification in killing the predators to protect their livestock.

B We have selectively bred animals so they have lost their ability to self care. The density of animals such as those seen on farms that produce goat meat and rabbit meat encourages predators, loss of diversity  and becomes a habitual site. Whereas in the wild those prey animals would move around. Even if you took down the fences, the livestock would be unable to survive. Not just because they have been selectively bred but also because of the loss of habitat and natural food chains. So taking down fences is not really an option, it would be mass slaughter.

B Again the closure of the slaughter houses demonstrates man&#039;s irresponsibility  towards animals. How are humans now classing these horses. Nobody wants them, so are they feral? Are they wild? Nature does not care about these horses as humans claim to do. They will survive or die.

BT Ranchers are either concerned enough to take responsibility or they can not claim any concern. In Permaculture, the problem is the solution, therefore the obvious thing to do is to allow nature to deal with it. That is the predators will eat the horses.

B It is ironic to blame the predators for clearing up the mess created by the Ranchers&#039; irresponsible attitude.

RE Byderule&#039;s answer CONTROLLED ECO TOURISM

B As mentioned before removing fences would result in mass slaughter of livestock, they are not wild animals.

BT We agree that wildlife corridors, are a good idea. These are the bit that is not fenced, connecting wild places with each other, so they do not become genetic islands

B It is important to consider what the gains are from the existing situation to another. For example a commercial farm is an ecosystem. Historically there have been many mistakes made even though there have been good intentions.

BT One of the overriding principles in Permaculture is to interfere in systems as little as possible. Whilst many would argue that a commercial farm is not a rich natural resource, the counter argument is that things have already adapted to survive in that environment.

B Returning land to Priarie is a nice idea. However, the Priarie will never come back. There is no way of ever rebuilding it. The best we can hope for is for some parts of the jigsaw. It can take hundreds of years, if at all, for the symbiosis to re-organize itself. You can plant trees but you can not rebuild the jigsaw. Many of the parts will be missing (locally extinct) and unable to recolonize. This is the crux of the matter. This is why we should be concerned with Environmental Degradation.

BT The eco system of the farm, what happens to all the fauna and flora that have been displaced by that? For example Barn owls, Barn Swallows, Golden Plover need plowed fields. Each living thing has a niche, or career, it is a human perception that gives living things priority or status over others.

BT We can not go back in time. The ecosytems have evolved and adapted to now. How far would you wish to go back?

For Example some Moths have now adapted to growing on dirty trees, would stand out, thus making them easy prey on clean trees.  

B The reality is that we have lost varieties of locally adapted flora,  we can not bring these back. Attempts to save seed has been disastrous because the seed has not adapted by being in situ. Prairie grasses may be genetically polluted by bringing exotic seed in to an area. In England our native bluebell crosses readily with an introduced Spanish bluebell, reducing genetic purity.

Eco tourism:

B I disagree that Eco Tourism is beneficial. How can building more accommodation, more infrastructure, more sewage and power consumption, more travel, waste production and associated environmental costs be beneficial to the environment?  Eco tourism is about personal financial gain, at the cost of local people and their environment.

Answer 4

I live in Mississippi. I wish I had some horses. I know that if more people knew about the problem, we could get together and find homes for these horses. We have pastures and water here. I suggest you send an email to the Humane Society and see if they can find them homes. This is how you can contact them.....American Humane 63 Inverness Drive East, Englewood, CO 80112-5117  phone- 1-800-277-4645 and their website is www.americanhumane.org They should want to help and they have the resources to do it.

Answer 5

Realistically animals need a habitat in which they thrive as part of the natural ecosystem.  Unfortunately as someone before has pointed out, that just isn&#039;t viable in a lot of cases.

Sometimes farmers will take in horses, we have done so - individual charity is one possibility.  Fundraising is another whether through publicity or ventures like ecotourism.

On the whole though the problem is that there is a huge competition for land resources and any &quot;customer&quot; that cannot pay its way is going to lose out.  And that includes horses.

Unfortunately a real solution involves huge economic shifts and shifts in human priorities towards the ecosystem, because what you describe happening to those horses is just one symptom of that huge challenge we all face.

Answer 6

I would have to agree with PermaCulture,what a dilemma?On the one hand who wants to shoot horses i don&#039;t !!! and on the other hand ranchers don&#039;t want the Wolves( because they are one smart predator) attacking their livestock.I feel sorry for the Horses, whatever  the ranchers do with the horses it should be done humanely.